BQR: Well Jack. First of all let me thank you for giving me this interview. You have told me that you are in your seventies. Where were you born?

Jack Karnehm: I was born in North London in 1917

What did your father do jack?

Father was a Baron! He lived in Czechoslovakia. He was an adventurous type and he left home and came to England when he was a young man. My mother was of Spanish origin and when they were married they had nine children and I was the last one.

Nine children! and how many of them are still in this world?

Two brothers and one sister.

Were there any great sporting connections in your family?

Not really though there were five brothers and there was a time when I think if you could have picked any five brothers in the world we could have taken them on at billiards. My father, Vaclav Karnehm, was a good amateur, not outstanding but loved to play the game. He was friendly with many professionals in the golden era of the game, hence the Karnehm boys interest.

Your brothers played then?

Oh yes, they were all hundred break players.

I see, but none of them got to your level? What about yourself jack. Most young boys are interested in various sports, did you play any other games?

When I was in my early teens I was interested in many sports. I was school football captain and I played for the London area. I became an area champion at swimming and springboard diving. You could almost say that I was sport mad. I scored a century at cricket and once took four wickets in four balls. Perhaps my favourite activity was athletics. I remember winning a hundred yards race, and I could do the mile in well under five minutes. I suppose that when I would have been in my prime as an athlete I was, like so many others, unfortunately in the army. But the attitude was a bit different in those days. People seemed to enjoy their sport more and hardly ever thought about exploiting their ability, certainly not to the extent that we see these days.

Now I've heard you say jack, that as a boy you knew Tom Newman. Would you like to say a bit about that?

Yes Tom. A lot of people today wouldn't appreciate it but he was a truly remarkable artist at the game. His great forte was top-of-the-table. He was a very quiet gentlemanly type of man. My family lived about 50 yards from where he lived. As a schoolboy I had to pass the house and I could look in and hear him practising, I could hear the click of the balls, and I'm talking about half-past-eight, nine o'clock in the morning. My father was quite a keen billiards player as I've said, and he got to know Tom and he used to come round. We had quite a large garden and he used to come round on a Sunday morning - we seemed to have lovely summers then. They would walk around and then Tom would come in and give me a little session.

You had a table at home?

Yes, we had one.

How old would you be then Jack, when you first started to play on a full-sized table?

I suppose about eight or even a little earlier.

As early as that. And you had your first tuition from Newman?

Yes, apart from dad. You see Tom would teach me the rudiments of the game and everything I teach today stems from what happened in our own house. I can see him now. We had a billiard room with lino on the floor and where the lino was cut there was a dead straight line through the centre pockets if you see what I mean, on the floor. And Tom used to say to me, now come on Jack, get your right foot on that line, come on, just there. In fact what he was saying is what I say now only using a white tape. There's one thing I must add though. I think that today's players are far more knowledgeable in the techniques of what happens when you do this or that, than they perhaps were in the old days. I say this with great respect because no-one admires the old players more than me. They could tell you how to play the shots and so on - but technically speaking there are so many things. The game has changed, the balls have changed, the cloths have changed, the cushions, but I do think that we can explain the game better these days. All this is reflected in the youth of today, they see it on television, whereas it used to be about half-a-dozen magicians if you like, but today there are hundreds (snooker), but they haven't the wonderful skills that they used to have.

Just give me an example or two of what you mean, Jack.

I remember once when my father took me to see Walter Lindrum play. As we sat down, Walter acknowledged my Dad, we had arrived a little late. In those days the front row was very near the table and within four or five shots he had gathered the balls just beside us and played a series of rocker cannons whilst keeping up a light-hearted conversation before going on his way. Such was the skill of Walter Lindrum. Look at Newman. He was once playing Claude Falkiner when, with about a half-hour to go Claude felt unwell. Tom suggested to my Dad that he should take him out whilst he (Newman) played out time - which he did.

And Clark McConachy. He once demonstrated to me the various ways of turning close cannons around, he took the balls along the entire length of the top cushion and back six times without breaking down. On another occasion he turned the balls when halfway along the top cushion and made it look easy.

Coming back to your career jack. How old were you when you first started to make decent breaks?

Nine years of age. I made my first hundred at nine - 1 made a 103 playing with Tom.

Were you able to play any competitive billiards at that time?

Not really, only with my brothers. Our thoughts were different then, it was all just sport and fun. No. What I used to do, as I've said, Tom taught me the rudiments, and I used to watch Tom play. Stanley Newman, Tom's brother, was a totally different type of man, he was a wonderful player. When I think back to Stanley he had such a beautiful style. He took everything in a very light-hearted sort of way but he was a fabulous player. He played in a pub with a billiards room in Tufnell Park called, "The Junction." I used to go there when I shouldn't have done. He used to play me, what a grounding. He could run nurseries all over the place, he was a marvellous player. But he wasn't a winner. You know, today, if you're a winner, then you're reckoned the best player. Now I don't know if you're going to ask me who is the best player but I wouldn't necessarily say the man who is always winning. It's how you look at the game of billiards, you can play billiards and you can play billiards. There are many levels of billiards and a man at a lower level of skills might often enough beat a man at a higher level, but the man at the higher level is playing a different quality of billiards, more demanding, which is more dangerous, and so on, and he is therefore often more vulnerable.

I know you were in the Army, that would have put a stop to your billiards for sure.

Yes. When I got to 21 I was a very good player, I had also just completed seven years apprenticeship in optics. Tom told my father he had great hopes for me. But suddenly Mr. Adolf put the stoppers on all that and I went away for seven years.

And on your return you worked very hard building up your business as an optician.

My brother and I had both been apprenticed for seven years in the profession.

I see, and though you obviously never lost your love of the game, in those days, just after the war, you wouldn't have had very much time for practice.

Good Lord no, I sometimes worked up to eighteen hours a day. I don't think I touched my cue from 1939 until about 1948 when I was thirty years of age. When I returned home from the Far East in 1946 I was quite ill but at least I was in one piece. I weighed eight stone having started at ten-and-a-half.

When would you say that you started to take the game seriously again?

I would say about 1949/50. A memory comes back now. I remember Cleary came to England at about that time, and he was in Burroughes and Watts and he was practising. A lovely player and a very nice chap. I stood watching him and I eventually asked him about tips. I said excuse me Mr. Cleary but what do you use when you need a new tip? He looked at me and laughed and said, I cut a lump off this - and he'd got a big leather belt on which he pointed to. We had good times together a few years later.

Well, well! And so you began to play again seriously in the early '50s. How long was it before you began to play in a manner that gave you some measure of satisfaction?

It happened with George Fisher.

Oh yes, I've heard of him

Yes. George was London champion and he was a taxi driver. He used to look after Horace Lindrum, drive him around, you know. Now George was a very good billiard player and he had five tables in a little club in Kentish Town. I almost started living there. Being a decent player, George welcomed me and once the club was closed, about midnight, we used to play, sometimes all night. We just used to play, not for money or anything, we just played. We knocked in 150s, 200s, that sort of thing. George was a good player and I learned a lot from him. John Barrie and I used to practice quite a lot in Fisher's club and much later we went to New Zealand together. From then on, about 1952, I won the London section, I think I won it about seven years running. I lost one. I had about ten wins. And there were some good players. I remember when if you won the London section you often had to play a lot of billiards, maybe 28 to 30 hours. There were players like Edmonson, Harold Townsend, George Fisher, all capable of big breaks. Well, at that time the chairman, Harold Phillips I think it was, said that they'd take me out and let me go through to the competition proper.

Yes, but with all those London wins you didn't show too well in the English Amateur. I remember Richard Holt (Editor of The Billiard Player) questioning to some extent your temperament. How would you respond to that now?

Well, I would think that his assessment - at that time - was quite fair, unbiased. Of myself, I would say, I had all the ability, but being in the South, well, I felt that time was not on my side, I'd lost all that time and that perhaps added maybe another dimension to me that didn't help, and being a bit of a loner. I played very little match play, I just practised, I still do.

I see. Anyway, be that as it may, you certainly came good in 1969 when you beat Mark Wildman in the Amateur by nearly a thousand. What do you remember of that?

Basically that I just played well. I gave it a go and played well. You see, I was getting to a stage when I started thinking just how long can you keep trying to win a major tournament. At home, playing on my own table, I had made ten breaks over the thousand, not including 1,602 just off the red ball, and there are people around who will tell you so. Now, bearing in mind my early experience, I believe, rightly or wrongly, that I had an image of billiards that was perhaps beyond me. I also think that had I not missed all those years during the war it might not have been beyond me. Perhaps I had been trying to play beyond my capacity. Against Mark I think I played well within my capacity, and it came off. Mark had never beaten me in previous matches. In the last half-hour I played top-of-the-table and some close cannons.

Perhaps you were too much of a perfectionist?

Maybe so. But you see I had seen with my own eyes how the game could be played, not just read about it.

Well you must have been on top form to wallop as good a player as Wildman, and the following year you won the World Amateur in a field that included such fine players as Marshall, Lafir, Wildman, Mohan, Roy Oriel, not to mention Michael Ferreira who made a 629 against you in the only game you lost. I suppose the star player there was Bob Marshall, what was your game with him like?

Well, we almost had words. I mean, Bob was rather like me in temperament, very aggressive, on the table anyway. I flogged the red ball and I think it upset him just a little. Let me tell you something, Jean, my wife, said to me during that championship, remember that I was chairman of the B&SCC at the time and I had organised that championship and I worked darned hard I can tell you, Jean said to me, now look, you can't go on doing this all the time, you're getting older, now go on and for goodness sake win the damn thing. Why don't you play the red ball, you know you can play it for ever. And that is what I did. Bob was a long way in front after the first session. That wasn't unusual for me as I have always been a slow starter. Session two I got my head down and ran out a good winner, I really can't remember the scores, about 200 in front I think. I well remember the remarks of one player made in the dressing room when he didn't realise I was present. They are best forgotten, he must have been disappointed with himself later.

Really. And so you relied a lot on the red-ball in that championship?

Yes. But there were times when, as against Mark, when I knew I had the game won, I loosened up a bit and started playing at the top-of-the-table, making little runs of cannons, that sort of thing, and I think a lot of people were surprised. I was capable of it but at that time, with the Crystalate ball, you could rely more on the red than now and a lot of people were playing the red. It was also a very fast cloth but not of my choosing as some suggested.

Herbert Beetham was a great one for the red ball.

Yes. Herbert was a fine hazard player. Won championships with it. So did Driffield. People forget that if you look at Walter Lindrum's early days he hardly played anything but the red, and that is the basis of it all. That is why I preach to up-and-coming snooker players, to use as a practice routine - now and then - a bit of billiards red ball to keep the cueing from getting jerky.

And of course, you have demonstrated this on both of your tapes.

Yes. I've spent time and money on my videos to try and answer this one and show to the best of my ability how it is done. Well, I don't wish to sound boastful but seeing is believing. I've had my share of critics in my time and the knockers should have a look and take note.

Anyway, you beat Marshall who, I know you will agree, was a very great player. That was quite a victory. The only one you lost was against Ferreira who virtually beat you by one break, nevertheless a great break.

My goodness yes, 629. Ferreira's break was a beauty and just at the right time. It was his first win over me and he deserved it. I remember that during the interval we discussed how he should play the drop-cannon that he had left for himself so that he could continue the break as he hoped, "Forever!" It was not a plain ball shot and he broke down soon after.

Your closest game was with Francisco of South Africa.

Yes. Manny Francisco was the uncle of Sylvano and Peter, he was a fine player and I trailed him right through the match. The title depended on this one and there was a real safety battle. With about ten minutes to go he made a slip and I ran out with a sizeable century unfinished and won, I think by nine.

Actually Jack it was even closer than that. I've checked on the records and you were 152 behind with about a quarter-of-an-hour to go. You played out time with 161 unfinished to win by seven. I thought you were supposed to have problems with your temperament? If you produce something like that when it matters then I wouldn't mind having the same kind of problem!

Thank you Tom.

It must have been not too long after that that you turned professional, but staying with your amateur days, who were the players you played and respected most of all?

Well, let's see, talking of respect on the table, from a winning point of view you have to hand it to two people, Leslie Driffield and Norman Dagley. I think I can say that my first real setback came through Norman Dagley. You know, some things stay with you for the rest of your life. I played Norman at Burroughes and Watts in the English, I just forget which round, and I had a bad first session, I always was a bit of a slow starter and at the interval I was about 500 behind. But I came back and got in front with not long to go, and do you know with only seconds left I was three or four in front, something like that, I had the simplest of shots on, what I should have done, I should have potted the white, but I went for a simple little screw which if I'd got it the game was over but I missed. Norman ran to the table and got a four shot or something like that and just won by a couple of points. Now, with hindsight, I should have stopped, waited, chalked my cue, taken my time. But I didn't, though a lot of players would have done.

I could name one or two!

Now I believe that was a big setback for me at that time in my career, I was well on my way to 50 years of age. Norman was a new boy coming through. He had been taught by Reg Wright and Reg said to me, now don't take Norman lightly, he's a good lad, he's a good strong player, not that I would ever take anyone lightly. But they were the circumstances and it went in Norman's favour, and I think that threw me back. But you know Norman's a fine player.

What about Frank Edwards, did you play him?

Oh yes, a smashing player. When Burroughes and Watts closed down I got in touch with Jarvis Astair, the man who shut it down, millionaire promoter. I phoned because at that time Richard Holt was rather ill, and they shut down Burroughes and Watts just like that, and I thought it was a crying shame that nobody had said good-bye to Richard, and he was getting on in years, he'd done a lot for the game. I managed to contact Astair personally and get him to open up Burroughes and Watts just for one night.

I remember reading about that. A testimonial evening for Richard Holt.

That's right. Well, I organised that. I got Herbert Holt, Joyce Gardner, Frank Edwards, Ray Reardon, and quite a few others. Ray Reardon was an amateur then and he came down from, I think, Wolverhampton just to play one frame. He had an awful game as it happened, lasted about ten minutes, and he accepted it and he left to go all the way back again. Now there's sportsmanship for you. It was a super night and we raised about £400 which was quite a lot of money then. Frank and myself played a one-hour game of billiards which must have been the last game ever played in that wonderful room.

What is you opinion of the young players of today and the direction in which you think the game is going?

I think that billiards has been spoiled to some extent, in terms of skills by the type of balls that we play with now, and by shaving the cloths, taking the nap away for snooker. This has taken away so many of the beautiful things that were in the game of billiards. The balls, they fly, they jump, they kick, to me they have taken away the sweetness of the whole game. The snooker players have found a way round, they've learned the art of potting, they never use side if they can help it, they hardly use the cushions, it's mostly stun and screw. Sometimes I really feel for the snooker boys when a kick ruins things in a vital situation.

But I think you would agree that billiards has recently made a little progress, there's been something of a revival.

Yes. Mike Russell, Peter Gilchrist, and now Roxton Chapman, together with Geet Sethi, and some others, are playing fine billiards. It's a deep subject and I do wish them well. I myself, do not like the short format of play. I think that trying to relate the game to, "Frames," of 150 is just not on at the top level. I do not think that it is good for the mental attitude required for the highest level of the game. Furthermore, I am not convinced that you can have a genuine seeding system which can take in both long and short-game matches.

Just to finish off then Jack, you must have a lot of happy memories of the game, and some things that you are proud of. Just tell us one or two of them.

Yes Tom I do. One of my earliest recollection is of playing the Canadian Con Stanbury in the Abbey Tavern in Kentish Town. Con was the Bill Werbenuik of his day. He gave me two blacks in a frame for a half-crown which my Dad bet with him and I won. In later years we spent time together in Herbert Holt's club in Windmill Street where he was the marker. Perhaps my best performance was against Horace Lindrum. He made a break of 849 and I followed it with a 773. I think that's the best I ever did and against one of the great players. It is true that it was on my own table but there were some spectators and anyway Horace was very kind in his remarks and that was good enough for me.

My highest in public was in Antwerp playing against an ex-carom champion. There was a large audience and I made a break of 851. The referee was Peter Niven from Yorkshire.

You did, of course, a lot on the administrative side of the game.

Yes. I took over the Chairmanship of the B&SCC and without going into a lot of detail I left them well in, "The Black," after they had been well in "The Red." I ran them for some years and, though it doesn't matter very much now, I feel that this was never really acknowledged. I am also quite proud of the fact that I was the first to give the professionals a real tournament with real money after many years in the wilderness, when I put one on at the Victoria Halls in London. I was Founder - Chairman of the National Coaching Scheme at Lilleshall for about twenty years, and, despite some of the things that have been said, the courses contributed a great deal to the advancement of snooker in recent years.

Well Thank you Jack. We haven't talked about you being runner-up to Wilson Jones in the New Zealand World Amateur of 1964; and we haven't even mentioned the fact that you were the U.K. Professional Champion in 1980 though that is because we have really been concentrating on the amateur game. However I should imagine that in your long career the World Amateur is still the one you cherish?

I suppose so, though I must say that Jean and I have been married for nearly 55 years, and that is the thing that I cherish most of all. Even if I could I wouldn't change a thing.

Thank you Jack Karnehm.