BQR: Hello Norman, great to see you looking so well. Thanks for taking the time out for a chat. Tell me, where were you born?

Norman Dagley: I was born in Earl Shilton in Leicestershire 59 years ago tomorrow.

Brothers and sisters?

One brother who doesn't play the game at all. As a matter of fact my father never had anything to do with the game as far as I know.

Were any of your family interested in sports or games?

Only me. I personally played many games. Cricket, football, badminton, a bit of tennis, but, of course, billiards was my first love.

When did you start with billiards?

When you live in a small village like I did, Earl Shilton, the only thing to do at that time of day, when you were 14, was to join the local institute because there wasn't anything else to do. Everybody went to Earl Shilton Institute, and that's where I met the great Reg Wright

I have heard you mention Reg Wright many times. Tell me something about him.

I can honestly say he was the best billiard player I've ever seen. I am referring to his game in practice. Unfortunately for him he was one of those chaps who have a poor temperament. In practice he was the best I've seen. For example, after I had been playing in the top flight for six or seven years and had won the amateur championship a couple of times he could still beat me comfortably in practice.

Could he really! if you played him an hour or two what sort of breaks would he make?

Well, minimum two hundred.

So he was the chap you learned from in those days.

Yes. Everything I know I owe to Reg Wright.

Well. That's very modest of you Norman. Though you say you owe everything to Reg, you must have developed what you learned through a great deal of practice and study.

Well, yes, of course. I remember him saying to me I've taught you everything I know but I can't teach you how to win.

How old were you at the time we are talking about?

I would be in my early twenties.

I see, soon after your National service. What were the first competitions that were of importance to you?

I remember very well. It was the English Championship of 1960 when I reached the final stages the first time I entered. I then ran into the redoubtable Herbert Beetham who was then at his peak.

It was Herbert who beat you in your first final in 1963. You once remarked to me that you thought at the time, with no disrespect, of course, that you thought there was no way he could beat you - but he did!

Well yes. You see Herbert was essentially a red-ball player, and even though the limit at that time was twenty-five hazards, I though that he could not beat me if I could get going at the top-of-the-table which proved to be totally wrong because he did beat me.

Well of course Herbert was a fine player in his own right. But you went on to take the title fifteen times and you had some quite remarkable wins. I was looking at your record and one of the highlights was the great break you made in 1978 against Nip Wright.

Yes. That was 862 and at the Western Social Club, Middlesbrough. The previous record was 859. I lost the white when I was 42 points short of the record but I took the 15 hazards to get the record.

I remember very well the records you set at my club in Nottingham, I was recording the visits. That was in the final against Clive Everton. When you went into the third session he was a couple of hundred or so in front. He once told me that he thought that if he could get in first then he would have a chance. It turned out the other way round. You scored just over 1200 points in five visits to the table and that was that. But of course you beat everybody around. Who would you say were your biggest rivals during your years as amateur champion?

In the early days I would have to say Herbert Beetham and Leslie Driffield, and to a lesser extent Alf Nolan.

What did you think of Nolan as a player, I've not seen much of him?

He's what I would call, and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, a bread and butter player. His game was all based on the half-ball play. Half-ball basic shots - which of course can be very effective.

Driffield was more an all-round player than a top-of-the-table player, wasn't he?

Yes, but he had great determination. Great shot getter. He could get in with a great shot and have the balls in position before you could blink. I wouldn't say he was a great top-of-the-table player. I don't think his style was suited to that.

My main rival during the seventies was undoubtedly Bob Close. Bob and I must have played about eight finals in a period of about ten years.

Yes, and in a way I suppose that Close, and Everton, could say they were a little unlucky not to be able to win the championship because you were around. Of course. Bob did win it a couple of times and once when Everton had beaten you in the semi. That wonderful record got you into a number of World Championships of which you won two and lost two, both of your losses to Michael Ferreira and once by only 114. I'm sure you will remember the other one when you went into the final session miles in front but somehow or other he managed to pull it off.

Yes. I do recall them. I was in Malta in 1971; I didn't enter in 1973 as I had some eye trouble. 1975 I regained it in New Zealand. 1977 I lost it in Australia. In 1981 I played Michael Ferreira in New Delhi And that was a terrific match. I led by 114 after 8 hours. Then I played him again in Malta. I led him by 600.

735 going into the final session.

735. Even worse than I thought. I hardly got to the table.

He must have played well. You lost by 64.

Absolutely

That must have shaken you up a bit, though there's nothing you could have done about it.

Another aspect of your amateur career is your success in the CIU championships. How many times did you get that one?

I won the CIU 11 times. Bob Close and Alf Nolan were often my chief opponents.

And so in 1985 you turned pro and reached the world championship final at the first attempt losing to Ray Edmonds.

Yes. That was at Hatton gardens, London. I couldn't really see where I was going in amateur billiards to be quite honest. The professional game was starting to gain some interest and I thought that then was the time to turn professional and I haven't regretted one second of it.

The following year you reached the final again. With your reputation and ability you were red hot favourite to win but it didn't happen. Do you think that pressure came into it somewhere?

No, not at all. In the first case with Ray Edmonds he played exceedingly well and in the second final against Foldvari it was exactly the same.

But you got it in 1987 and again in 1988. I believe it was in 1987 that you got the European and the U.K. as well. You swept the board.

Yes. I got a billiards grand slam.

It's a funny thing Norman but I was checking up just the other day and I'm sure I'm right in saying that you have held more major titles than any other player who ever lived including the great Lindrum.

I didn't know that.

Well yes. You held the English Amateur and CIU, the World Amateur, the World Professional, The U.K. and the European. No other player has done this and I don't think any other player ever will. I realise of course that the great players of the past could not have held amateur titles as they played professionally throughout their careers. Nevertheless it is a remarkable and unique achievement.

Thank you. I hadn't realised that.

It must be about eighteen months ago that you suffered a setback and I can assure you that all the people I ever met in billiards were very worried about you. Can you tell me a bit about it?

It could have been extremely serious. Basically there was a simple reason. Totally unknown to me, I'm basically a very laid back sort of person, but I had very high blood pressure and this caused a small blood vessel to burst in my head. Now if I had known I could have done something about it earlier. As it was it could have been extremely dangerous.

It could have killed you!

That's right. It could have done. But I had some first class attention and I'm pleased to say that I'm perfectly recovered.

Well I can tell you that everybody in the game, and I mean everybody, was really pleased for you. But it was a bit of a setback to your billiarding. But having had this setback, and having won just about everything it is humanly possible to win in the game, do you still have any ambitions. Do you feel there's a few tournaments left to win yet?

Yes, I feel so. I always think that I'm going to win though I never underestimate anybody. But I never think that everything is against me, that I've everything to lose and nothing to gain, I've never thought that way. Putting it in a nutshell I still love the game.

So you still have the ambition. You still want to be there. The younger players will still have plenty on then. And what are your opinions on some of the younger ones.

Well. Mike Russell is an excellent player. Top class in fact. The thing I find most amazing about Mike is the fact that he has learned the game so thoroughly and so quickly. We all used to think that it was a long process, that you had to serve an apprenticeship; well, that's not happened in Mike's case. He's probably a one-off.

Possibly. I remember seeing him a year or two ago when he was only sixteen or seventeen making billiards look like child's play. But he's not the only one is he?

Peter's (Gilchrist) a very good player, perhaps a little less developed than Russell but nevertheless a top-class player.

Williamson? but then he's not quite so young, though I suppose he's young in billiard terms.

When I first won the English Championship I was twenty-nine and I remember Richard Holt (The Editor of the, "Billiard Player.") saying that I was just a babe in arms. Nowadays people think of twenty-nine as getting old.

Well, just to finish off Norman I'd just like to ask you a little about your game. I've watched you and played you for a few years now and although I know you are a superb all-round player, most people think of you as being a top-of-the-table specialist and especially for your ability at the postman's knock. When you're playing that it seems, at times, that you will never break down. Have you spent many and many an hour working at it?

I have, of course. But my ability is largely due, as I said initially, to Reg Wright and what he taught me. All I know about the top-of-the-table, and particularly the postman's knock, is down to him.

Floating White?

Well yes, I can play the floating white, but bear in mind that if you break down at the postman's knock, with the object white pinned on the top cushion, you very rarely leave anything. Always remember that. When I'm flowing at the top I find postman's knock quite easy, this may sound ridiculous, but I find it doesn't require hardly any effort from me.

Another thing that I've noticed is your ability to pot the red in a middle bag and hardly ever fail to get perfect position for the cannon. It's almost uncanny as it is by no means as easy as it looks.

During my later years I've changed my technique a little on that one depending on the table itself. If the table is of considerable speed I go to the top cushion and come back of it. If it isn't (fast) I'll play to stop the white directly where I want it.

Thanks so much to you Norman Dagley. Let me wish you all the best in Australia.